Fwd: [Rocks-Discuss]Fwd: Cluster Poll Results (tangent into OS choices)

Glen Otero gotero at linuxprophet.com
Mon Nov 3 23:14:43 EST 2003

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Philip Papadopoulos" <phil at sdsc.edu>
> Date: Mon Nov 3, 2003  7:40:44  PM US/Pacific
> To: "Glen Otero" <gotero at linuxprophet.com>
> To: npaci-rocks-discussion-admin at sdsc.edu
> To: npaci-rocks-discussion at sdsc.edu
> Subject: Re: [Rocks-Discuss]Fwd: Cluster Poll Results (tangent into OS 
> choices)
> Reply-To: phil at sdsc.edu
> Since I don't read the beowulf list ... Somebody can forward.
> 1) Rocks isn't cheaply ripping off redhat. It certainly is our right 
> under gpl to provide the distro in the fashion we do.
> 2) I would like redhat to have a cluster pricing that 
> academics/companies can afford and makes sense so they don't opt out 
> of using a tested product. That price is > $0.
> 3) Redhat does an immense amount of work for the entire linux 
> community. I'd like them to have a way for us to give them a 
> reasonable amount of money for clusters. It takes real people, time, 
> and money to build a complete, tested distro.
> 4) Fedora is really a rolling beta. The community needs this. But, 
> people who run "production" clusters desire regression-tested distros 
> and more slowly moving software.
> 5) I don't work for or run a clustering company. I don't own stock in 
> redhat.
> 6) Open source means freedom in software. It doesn't mean free beer.
> -p
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Glen Otero <gotero at linuxprophet.com>
> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:49:51
> To:npaci-rocks-discussion at sdsc.edu
> Subject: [Rocks-Discuss]Fwd: Cluster Poll Results (tangent into OS 
> choices)
> Begin forwarded message:
>> From: Glen Otero <glen at callident.com>
>> Date: Mon Nov 3, 2003  6:42:09  PM US/Pacific
>> To: beowulf at beowulf.org, Mike Snitzer <msnitzer at lnxi.com>
>> Cc: npaci-rocks-discussion at sdsc.edu
>> Subject: Re: Cluster Poll Results (tangent into OS choices)
>> On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 03:51  PM, Mike Snitzer wrote:
>>> On Fri, Oct 31 2003 at 13:37,
>>> Wei Deng <weideng at uiuc.edu> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at 02:44:59PM -0500, Vann H. Walke wrote:
>>>>> - OSCAR / Rocks / etc...  - generally installed on top of another
>>>>> distribution.  We still have to pick a base distribution.
>>>> From what I heard from Rocks mailing list, they will release 3.1.0
>>>> the
>>>> next Month, which will be based on RHEL 3.0, compiled from source
>>>> code
>>>> that is publicly available, and free of charge.
>>> Rebuilding RHEL3 into a freebie-ripoff version doesn't pass the
>>> smile-test
>>> for corporations trying to coexist and actually work with Red Hat.
>> Really? Is that why Dell, HP, Cray, Promicro, and Intel all work with
>> and/or sell Rocks-based clusters? Because it won't pass the smile test
>> inside a corporation?
>>> Why
>>> not focus that questionable rebuilding effort on a more worthwhile
>>> task?
>>> E.g. porting Fedora Core to support amd64, ia64, etc; adding features
>>> to
>>> Fedora Core that are relevant to clustering, etc.
>>>> Even though Rocks is based on RedHat distribution, it is complete,
>>>> which
>>>> means you only need to download Rocks ISOs to accomplish your
>>>> installation.
>>> All well and good, but basing a "complete" clustering solution on a
>>> reverse
>>> engineered RHEL is completely underhanded and wrong (regardless of
>>> whether
>>> you feel RH is being greedy or whatever).  Ripping off RHEL is a
>>> pretty
>>> cheap contribution to the advancement of free clustering technology.
>>> But
>>> maybe this type of thing gets peoples' ROCKS off?
>> It's hardly reverse engineered, underhanded, or wrong. The Rocks guys
>> have been releasing their software for years based on standard Red Hat
>> releases. In order to make their cluster software freely available on
>> ia64, they built RH AS 2.1 from srpms, which is perfectly legal. They
>> also had planned to base the Rocks software on RH9 in the near future,
>> but RH decided to stop supporting everything but RHEL. So, in order to
>> continue to provide the community with the latest and greatest
>> clustering software with a Red Hat foundation, the Rocks guys are
>> migrating to a RHEL release.  And in order to keep it free of charge,
>> they are building it all from scratch using RHEL srpms. And don't
>> think they are pulling one over on Red Hat or ripping Red Hat off. The
>> Rocks crew communicates frequently with Red Hat regarding these very
>> issues. Red Hat knows exactly what they are doing and supports it.
>> Besides, the technology that makes Rocks what it is is hardly due to
>> anything Red Hat creates. It's all the software that the Rocks crew
>> has written and packaged on top of Red Hat that matters.
>>> Mike
>>> (these views are my own; I just happen to work for a clustering
>>> company ;)
>> These views are my own. I just happen to own a clustering company.
>> Glen Otero, Ph.D.
>> Linux Prophet
> Glen Otero, Ph.D.
> Linux Prophet
> 619.917.1772
> Sent via BlackBerry - a service from AT&T Wireless.
Glen Otero, Ph.D.
Linux Prophet

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