Fwd: Re: [GE users] SGEEE is opensource, opensource, please repeat with me...

Ron Chen ron_chen_123 at yahoo.com
Sun Apr 6 00:20:00 EST 2003


--- Fritz Ferstl <Friedrich.Ferstl at sun.com> wrote:
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 16:53:33 +0100 (MET)
> From: Fritz Ferstl <Friedrich.Ferstl at sun.com>
> To: users at gridengine.sunsource.net
> Subject: Re: [GE users] SGEEE is opensource,
> opensource, please repeat with
>  me...
> 
> Hi Vaclav,
> 
> thanks for pointing this out again.
> 
> The reply you wrote to the beowulf list is
> completely correct and not 
> speculative at all. In reality, it goes even
> farther. If Sun or anyone 
> else who want's to create a commercial Grid Engine
> version intends to 
> change the sources such that project defined
> compatibility requirements 
> are violated then those changes would need to be
> documented and the 
> interfaces which were introduced would need to be
> published. This is the 
> spirit of the SISSL open source licensing model
> under which Grid Engine 
> has been released and it tries to ensure
> interoperability between open 
> source and commercialized versions. This is 100% the
> case today. You can 
> use Sun's commercial version completely
> interchangeably with the 
> same-release-level versions from the project.
> 
> Note that everyone has the same rights in the
> project and can create a 
> commercial version of Grid Engine. The thing that
> needs to be honored is 
> the SISSL. See
> 
>
http://gridengine.sunsource.net/project/gridengine/Gridengine_SISSL_license.html
> 
> for details.
> 
> We'll upgrade the site to a new version of
> SourceCast within the next 
> few weeks and have planned to refurbish the content
> a bit in this 
> process. We'll keep an eye on your recommendation to
> make more clear 
> that the full Enterprise Edition functionality is
> indeed contained in 
> the published project source code and in the project
> builds.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Fritz
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 hanzl at noel.feld.cvut.cz wrote:
> 
> > Sorry to repeat this old topic, but I see this
> happen again and again:
> > 
> >  PEOPLE THINK THAT SGEEE IS NOT OPENSOURCE !
> > 
> > And some of them get upset and it is hard to
> explain them that they
> > are mistaken. I spent quite big effort on
> beowulf at beowulf.org to make
> > this clear but confused people arise again and
> again.
> > 
> > Please:
> > 
> > - If you can find more suitable places where to
> put bold label
> >   "SGEEE is OPENSOURCE", please do it
> > 
> > - Kindly verify my explanation below - I did not
> intend to send a copy
> >   here but later I realized that maybe I was too
> speculative, so please
> >   check that my claims are true.
> > 
> > Thanks a lot
> > 
> > Vaclav Hanzl
> > 
> > ------- one of my beowulf posts - please verify my
> claims: -----------
> > 
> > Subject: Re: sun grid engine?
> > From: hanzl
> > To: kus at free.net
> > Cc: beowulf at beowulf.org
> > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 20:12:03 +0100
> > 
> > > May be it's integrated into SGE 5.3 Enterprise
> Edition ? I said about
> > > *free* SGE 5.3. Both "Sun ONE Grid Engine
> Administartor and User's Guide"
> > > and "Sun ONE Grid Engine Release Notes" don't
> have just the word "MAUI".
> > > Moreover, the only sheduler algorithm allowed in
> usual
> > > (free) SGE 5.3 is "standard" (see SGE
> Administrator & User's guide, p.225).
> > 
> > It is easy to get confused by SGE versions.
> > 
> > Enterprise Edition is also free. MAUI was
> integrated with it - most of
> > this work was done by MAUI team with help from SGE
> team.
> > 
> > Regarding SGE versions, I think it works as
> follows:
> > 
> > 1) Developers create opensource SGE version. They
> work using publicly
> > available CVS software repository. All new
> features come to this
> > version.
> > 
> > This opensource version is both "SGE" ans "SGE
> Enterprise Edition" -
> > the difference is just an instalation option. You
> install both using
> > the same files, you may compile both using the
> same sources from the
> > CVS archive.
> > 
> > 2) 'Commercial' part of SUN takes these sources
> (probably without any
> > important changes) and compiles 'commercial' SGE
> and SGEEE. They add
> > word 'ONE' to the name. They create nice manuals.
> You can buy this
> > software and get usual support you expect for
> commercial software.
> > You can still download the manuals for free. Just
> skip word 'ONE'
> > while reading them - they are perfectly usable for
> free SGE as well.
> > They just may be out of date because the free
> version already has new
> > features (like MAUI integration). They may also
> never mention MAUI
> > integration because the 'commercial' part of SUN
> has no support for
> > it.
> > 
> > 
> > All this is just too nice to believe it so people
> often get confused.
> > 
> > Note that it probably quite differs from
> PBS/OpenPBS development model
> > - I am no expert on PBS (experienced experts,
> please correct me if I
> > am wrong!) but I think that commercial PBS and
> OpenPBS are split and
> > the development team has quite hard times deciding
> what to do - they
> > introduce new features to commercial branch to
> make it more attractive
> > (to make any money on it) but in the same time
> similar features are
> > wanted in the OpenPBS version. They themselves
> created their own enemy
> > on the market (OpenPBS) and now they are not sure
> how to behave to it
> > - support it as their child? Kill it as their
> enemy? 
> > 
> > Even if	I am wrong in my thoughts on PBS (and I
> may easily be wrong as
> > it is a long time I left PBS maillists) I am
> pretty sure many PBS
> > users percieve it like this (as I got few quite
> few emails from them
> > indicating this).
> > 
> > PBS is older than SGE (and yes, PBS did many good
> things, no doubt)
> > and everybody knew PBS when opensource SGE was
> born. And many people
> > could easily expect that SGE used the same model
> as PBS did. (It was
> > easy to think that SGE EE is the commercial
> version - no, it is not.)
> > 
> > SGE did not use the same model as PBS. It used
> more open one. And this
> > choice was huge success I think.
> > 
> > ...
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> > Vaclav
> > 
> > 
> > ---- one more example of confusion -------
> > 
> > Subject: Re: sun grid engine?
> > From: Alan Scheinine <scheinin at crs4.it>
> > To: Beowulf at beowulf.org
> > Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 10:33:09 +0100
> > 
> > I see "Vaclav" posted a message.  Last week we
> began the installation
> > of SGE and someone involved with the installation
> said that in order
> > to have the options of sgeee it is necessary to
> buy that version.
> > Using grep on the messages I had saved, I found
> the message from
> > Vaclav from the year 2001 showing how to convert
> sge to sgeee.
> > In 2001 Vaclav said that the information was at
> the end of the
> > download page, now it is in a readme file in the
> distribution.
> > In any case, the note from Vaclav in 2001 proved
> to be useful also
> > in 2003, the file is easily overlooked if the
> system administrator
> > does not know it can be done.  By the way, the
> file is
> >  <your SGE directory hierarchy
> root>/README.inst_sgeee
> > Alan
> > 
> > ---- I think Alan means this my old note:  -----
> > 
> > Subject: SGEEE easily mistaken as commercial
> version
> > From: hanzl at noel.feld.cvut.cz
> > To: dev at gridengine.sunsource.net,
> beowulf at beowulf.org
> > Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:22:40 +0200
> > 
> > Prospective SGE users could very easily be
> mistaken and suppose that
> > Enterprise Edition is a commercial close source
> version. If you
> > download the three tarfiles from "Binary
> Downloads" page, unpack them
> > and look around, you will install non-EE version.
> There is no way to
> > find easily (from unpacked files) that you could
> install EE. The pdf
> > manual will tell you about EE features but your
> instalation is missing
> > them. No hint at all that EE is also opensource.
> > 
> > This IMHO seriously harms the SGE project and
> should be corrected as
> > soon as possible by including inst_sgeee script in
> tar files.
> > 
> > Potential SGE users and opensource co-developers
> are likely to know
> > PBS, which exists in both opensource and
> commercial version. During SGE
> > test-install many of them will be systematically
> driven into false
> > assumption that SGE project is organised the same.
> > 
> > I wish all the best to Veridian and PBS and
> everybody making free
> > versions of commercial software. This setup of
> things however
> > inevitably makes opensource users to assess danger
> that core
> > developement team will be torn between opensource
> and commercial
> > version support, will be reluctant to port
> commercial version fixes to
> > opensource version (cause it takes time) and will
> be unable to
> > integrate opensource-community created patches
> cause without knowledge
> > of the commercial version source these patches
> will diverge.
> > 
> > It is very sad to have these worries about SGE by
> mistake.
> > 
> > 
> > Only after lot of hacking around I found that all
> you have to do to
> > install EE is to rename inst_sge to inst_sgeee
> (and it behaves
> > accordingly). Only after this I looked around once
> more and found this
> > at the bottom of binary download page:
> > 
> >  Only for Grid Engine Enterprise Edition you have
> to make slight modifications:
> >  % cd $SGE_ROOT 
> >  % ln -s inst_sge inst_sgeee 
> >  % replace inst_sge with inst_sgeee in the last
> line of the files install_qmaster and install_execd 
> >  Then you can proceed as with the standard Grid
> Engine installation. 
> > 
> > Well, you may say it is my fault not to notice
> this before. Sure it is
> > but I think this fault is quite common and harms
> SGE a lot. It is
> > worth it to include inst_sgeee in tar files now as
> many Beowulf
> > maillist readers might be prompted by recent SGE
> discussions to go and
> > try SGE - and maybe forget about it if they make
> the same mistake as I
> > did.
> > 
> > 
> > With all the best wishes to SGE team (and thanks
> for all the work done
> > so far)
> > 
> > Vaclav
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>
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